Seeking Assistance with Eliminating False Positives in Motion Detection

[Sardon]

I've realised a significant oversight on my part. I aim to record not only anyone approaching the door, but also any movement in that vicinity, excluding changes in lighting and movement outside the railings. There's a possibility of someone behaving oddly, peering through the window without necessarily triggering a sensor. At times, with the current setup, I capture just a part of a person on the far left, like a shoulder or a hand, and that's actually ideal.

I've recently wiped my old PC and it's now setup exclusively for Blue Iris, but it feels like an underuse of its capabilities, given it's an I9-10850K with a high-end motherboard and ample RAM. I'm considering utilising it more effectively. I'm leaning towards implementing CPAI; again unsure due to my previous failures. I'm sure CAPI would detect hands and whatnot.

I should have mentioned earlier in this post that my objective is to capture everything within the view of my kitchen camera, mainly geared to see how approaches my home but captures everything nonetheless, with the exception of anything including people downstairs and lighting changes due to sunlight and cloudy weather.

[Pogo]

Hi Pogo.. So are you suggesting I delete the entire zone (after cloning), and simply create a new zone (same as your white line) instead of covering the complete railings ?

Precisely.

It's been a problem for me for very long time and if that simple white line (zone?) is the solution I'd be over totally over the moon!

I refer to the method as a "poor man's trip wire'. It should work as described.

Thanks for the insight and providing that short clip you created on YouTube..

My pleasure and you are most welcome. A point I don't recall including with the YouTube example explanation was using the pre-trigger record feature to actually capture activity prior to the trigger zone activity actually occurring. Helps add context to the clip and obviously eliminates the abruptness of the clip beginning. In this case, anything approaching the trip zone from either direction would be recorded prior to the trigger activating an alert.

Please report your results and/or don't hesitate to ask for assistance if the cloning doesn't go according to plan.

[Pogo]

I've realised a significant oversight on my part. I aim to record not only anyone approaching the door, but also any movement in that vicinity, excluding changes in lighting and movement outside the railings. There's a possibility of someone behaving oddly, peering through the window without necessarily triggering a sensor. At times, with the current setup, I capture just a part of a person on the far left, like a shoulder or a hand, and that's actually ideal.

That's what your master camera is for and one of the main benfits of cloning.

I should have mentioned earlier in this post that my objective is to capture everything within the view of my kitchen camera, mainly geared to see how approaches my home but captures everything nonetheless, with the exception of anything including people downstairs and lighting changes due to sunlight and cloudy weather.

Again, tune the master camera for that purpose and those conditions, but use the clone for your desired alert of approaching activity to eliminate all the nuisance alerts occuring within the larger zone. Keep it simple. You could dial back or entirely eliminate alerts on the main camera and simply set it up with a basic motion trigger zone for abbreviated clip recordings instead of relying on the Time Line for scrubbing. If the Time Line is your approach, leave triggers in place for the master camera and simply eliminate the alerts.

The clone opens up a whole new approach to everything..., incuding less (or no) reliance on AI and the additional hassle and complexities involved for accomplishing such simple tasks.

[Sardon]

Hello again

Sorry to be a pain.. But I'm having problems and it all went a bit pair shaped so I've reverted back my original setup.

Sorry for the delay - I'm a bit confused as to what I'm supposed to do. There is a video on YouTube on how to clone camera by creating a new camera using the same IP , user credentials etc and just adding a label the clone , I presume this is the correct method of cloning?

So if this is the case, once I have a camera cloned , what am I supposed to do here ? Do I just modify the clone remove the zone entirely and add the line or two to the balcony zone file ?

I was thinking of doing something like this maybe to capture anything that enters early into the area:

Image.jpg (102.51 KiB) Viewed 158691 times

Then again maybe Pogo's suggestion is right in saying if you put in the middle and adjust the pre-trigger it should capture either way but then that's only if an object (dodgy person) crosses that threshold.

I'm sorry to be a pain and prolong this issue out for so long , this thread has been on-going for a while and whilst I really appreciate all the input I'm sorry for prolonging and the reason being I haven't been fully able to grasp the tasks of what I'm expected to carry out..

Can you provide me steps on exactly what I need to do please if it isn't too much trouble.

I presume I have to perform the following?

1. Clone camera. I presume the only way to clone camera is to add camera using same IP as stated above?
2. On the clone ? remove the current zone and created a new zone and one or two of those poor mans triggers?
3. De-activate the main camera? Do I just disable it entirely ? how do I deactivate it?

Is this all that is required or am I missing something here ?

Also in one of the responses from Pogo I noticed that the motion detection button wasn't checked, but the zones was.. I was a bit confused after re-reading this today.

Thanks guys for your help.. I've been away for a little while and have just returned home and the amount of false flags I was getting whilst away are just unbearable to the point I was even tempting to disable the motion detection remotely and then sods law, something would go down and I need to sort this out as a priority because it's causing me to become somewhat depressed believe it or not and I don't want to be a burden on anybody and keep asking for help when everyone has stated the obvious , but I'm really struggling with this blue iris alert issue on the balcony and I'm trying to follow the guidance provided.

If you could be kind enough to break it down into basic format for me to comprehend that would be fantastic.

Thanking you in advance
SN

[Pogo]

Sorry to be a pain..

Not at all! Your persitance is quite admirable.

If you could be kind enough to break it down into basic format for me to comprehend that would be fantastic.

I'll do my best to clarify what I was trying to explain previously, perhaps a bit later this evening (Ohio, USA time).

As for cloning a camera, there's a one click check box that simply creates a replica of the main camera's stream for independent manipulation. The configuration is automatic and initially will be identical to the master. You modify the settings from there accordingly..., triggers, zones, alerts, anything and everything. The IP and stream info remain the same but don't use any significant additional bandwidth.

Clone.jpg (73.96 KiB) Viewed 158979 times

Once created, you simply modify the clone settings for whatever specific purpose you desire while still also maintaining the complete functionality of the master..., essentially two of the same camera independently manageable and dedicated to different functions simultaneously.

Additional info to follow.

[Pogo]

1. Clone camera. I presume the only way to clone camera is to add camera using same IP as stated above?

See previous post for the one click check box method for cloning.

2. On the clone ? remove the current zone and created a new zone and one or two of those poor mans triggers?

Basically, yes.

Once the clone is created you'll want to clear it of the existing main camera detection settings which will still be present until either modified or deleted/disabled. You'll then have a clean slate to begin setting it up for its intended purpose. You'll also need to decide if viewing it in real time has any value or purpose since the answer to your next question is "no". LOL (Your main camera will still be your main camera.) Below is a basic clone entry. It will all be familiar territory with only a few exceptions. You will notice it is in 'Hidden' mode in my example because there is no need for it to be visible anywhere except, clips, timeline, alert jpegs, etc., with the main camera still serving the realtime viewing / monitoring function. No need for a duplicate.

Honic Clone.jpg (91.7 KiB) Viewed 158830 times

Your next question could possibly be, "Then how do I access it if it's invisible?" Very good question! The answer (at least the way I do it) is to simply access it from the Status window. There are other ways, but I find this method the most convenient for my particluar purposes. Just locate your clone and right click.

You'll notice the main Honic camera at the top of the list and the Honic clone in its own catagory at the bottom. You'll also notice the clone has no substream which is intentional and not desired in this particular example because I want smaller pixels for achieving a more refined trigger to send MMS jpeg alerts to my phone -- with zero nuisance triggers -- with no AI. Works perfectly with zero nuisance alerts.

You'll also notice different numbers for Motion, Triggers, Alerts and Clips. That's what it's all about. Two independent setups with the same camera. (Clips are still visible in the clips list even when the live view is hidden, btw.)

Clone Entry.jpg (120.78 KiB) Viewed 158830 times

Just think of the clone as a completely new and independent triggering, recording and alerting extension of the main camera which is already your real time viewing camera. There is no reason to actually view the clone once it is appropriately configured for its task..., which in this case will be as another detection device for an area already covered by the master camera, but with a more specific purpose for a more limited area within the existing zone of the main camera..., a second set of refined triggers and alerts for its own Zone A (or any of its zones) if you will.

3. De-activate the main camera? Do I just disable it entirely ? how do I deactivate it?

Use your main camera as you have been using it. Possibly modify its settings to better compliment the clone. Simplify what you are attempting to have it currently do..., whatever seems to make the most sense toward achieving the desired results of your efforts.

Is this all that is required or am I missing something here ?

That's basically the nutshell version and should get you going adequately enough to begin exploring the broader possibilities. It will certainly accommodate what you are attempting to do with ease once you have the hang of it.

Also in one of the responses from Pogo I noticed that the motion detection button wasn't checked, but the zones was.. I was a bit confused after re-reading this today.

I think you may mean 'Object Detection' button.
Object Detection and Zones can be used independently or in combination to compliment and/or enhance the other. Both are considered 'Advanced' Motion detection features and neither are required for Motion detection which can otherwise be achieved by simply activating Motion detection and using the basic motion sensor settings.

My particular setup is based on a very precise 'zone' consisting of 12 pixels of my clone camera's Zone A (which is the default zone for all cameras.) That's why I encourage folks who jump right into the AI thing to step back from all that and learn some basics first -- very simple but powerful basics if one takes the time to learn them.

I'm really struggling with this blue iris alert issue on the balcony and I'm trying to follow the guidance provided.

If you could be kind enough to break it down into basic format for me to comprehend that would be fantastic.

Just a clone and a single line of pixels can open a whole new world of possibilities for you. You're much closer than you think.

Don't hesitate to ask questions.

[Sardon]

Thank you for all that info..

However I seem to be stuck at the first hurdle of cloning the camera.

I see the checkbox Clone Master. So my question is what defines a master (or main camera) I have 4 cameras in use in total, I'd say personally that the balcony camera is the main camera as my other cameras are internal but I haven't defined it anywhere within BI as a main/master?

I've even tried to create a new camera and click on clone master to no avail.

I definitively missing something here.

Regards

[Pogo]

My most sincere apologies. The cloning method I detailed was simply a massive brain fart and not the actual cloning process at all. Completely incorrect and does not apply to this situation. (Uncheck 'Clone master' if checked before proceeding with the proper method below.) Again, I'm sorry for such a glaring mistake and the associated inconvenience. Properly functioning brain cells become more limited every day!

So what we actually want to do is select 'Add Camera -> Copy From Another Camera. Select the desired source camera from the drop down list below Copy from another camera and you're on your way.

The New Camera 'General' window appears for configuring the clone. It is a replica of the source camera and will appear in the main desktop display 'All Cameras' frame as 'My Camera 1 (Cam1)*' until named as desired and also appear at the bottom of the Status list in 'Other Cameras' until added to a group of choice if using multiple camera groups. It will then become part of that group. (I use multiple groups and simply created a 'Clones' group for the purpose.) Otherwise, it will simply become a member of 'All Cameras'.

At this point everything else should apply as previously described..., I think. LOL

Again, I'm terribly sorry for the diversion.

Now where did I leave my keys.......

Ah, yes. In the refrigerator!

[Sardon]

Thanks for clarifying. So I've created a clone by using the method you mentioned above. In the cloned camera, do I still go ahead and select Clone Master?

I'm presuming at this stage on the main camera ,all I need to do now is to disable the motion detection settings completely (preserving my zone settings etc if I need to revert back), so they don't apply no longer and to create and apply that poor man wire trap to the clone ?

Thanks again

[Sardon]

OK I'm not sure if this'll work but I'll take a walk outside now - At least it'll give me an excuse to take out the trash

Here is a screenshot of the newly created trip wires on the cloned balcony cam..

clone-zone.jpg (67.68 KiB) Viewed 158378 times

You know it's a shame that BI doesn't allow you to draw in vectors , or the likes of a line tool or something. I can't draw a straight line for the life of me.

I'm hoping this trip wire will suffice in capturing anything that crosses it's path..

In terms of the object size I presume because it's a small line in high res , that the object size could be kept to a minimum ?

Are these setting adequate for this use case?

motion-sensor.jpg (28.02 KiB) Viewed 158378 times

object-detection.jpg (27.92 KiB) Viewed 158378 times

I'm actually thinking because it's just a small line that the pixels must travel must be set very low, but then again it states "on sub-stream".. Not sure I'm even using it's utilising a sub-stream to be fair.

Ok time to test I'll let you know