Disk thrashing

Post Reply
MattiasF
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:48 am

Disk thrashing

Post by MattiasF » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:32 pm

Problem:
The HDD is working overtime doing something that does NOT show up in disk usage but is resulting in the HDD LED being constantly on and I can hear the box vibrate from the bathroom next door. I'm worried the HDD is going wear out since it's obviously is doing a lot of mechanical work.

Setup:
  • Win10, i4770K with 16GB RAM
  • BI5 latest as of today
  • SSD OS/BI drive
  • 14TB WD Purple video drive (causing noise)
  • 6x 4K h265 Amcrest PoE cameras running about 3000kB/s total as reported in BI Status
  • Continuous direct-to-disk recording on all cams
Failed fixes and investigation:
  • Turning off BI stops the thrashing
  • Uninstalled AntiVirus in case it was scanning in the background
  • Resource Monitor shows close to 0% Disk utilization
  • S.M.A.R.T reports no issues with drive
  • Pausing each video progressively solves the problem
  • Rebooting box fixes it temporarily
Speculation:
The HDD is thrashing trying to write all six cameras to six different BVR files with too little buffer, causing the head to thrash back and forth.

Any ideas on how to fix this? It's seriously vibrating so loud that it worries me.
User avatar
TimG
Posts: 1047
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:45 am
Location: Nottinghamshire, UK.

Re: Disk thrashing

Post by TimG » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:16 am

Speculation:
The HDD is thrashing trying to write all six cameras to six different BVR files with too little buffer, causing the head to thrash back and forth.
I have speculated the same thing before. How can a mechanical drive have the heads everywhere at the same time !

If there is any truth in this speculation, then:

1. You could try raising the receive buffer per camera to see if that helps.
or
2. Are you recording all cameras directly to the 14TB drive, or do they go to a "New" folder first ? If "New" and "Stored" folders are on the same drive it may cause this thrashing - I have the "New" and BI5 db on a separate SSD to my large (mechanical) storage drive. If your cameras record directly to "Stored" on the 14TB drive. then do you have a spare SSD to run a test with "New" on it ?
BI5 v54711 x64 | Win10 21H1 | Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-ZE, Foscam R2, Ertech 4MP, Neos2, 2 SD cams | BI5:1 i5-3330, 16GB Ram, Multiple SSD and HD, Homeseer 2 HSPhone, TVMosaic | BI5:2 Ryzen 1800X, 16GB Ram, Multiple SSD and HD, Homeseer 4, Emby, DVBViewer.
MikeBwca
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:39 am

Re: Disk thrashing

Post by MikeBwca » Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:02 pm

The WD Purple, and Seagate Skyhawk, HDD's have the same number of heads, BUT, they have special caches & i/o to accommodate all those concurrent streams to the platters.

I had WD Purple, then switched to Seagate Skyhawk. Yes, these will sound like there going crazy, but there's designed that way.

I've since switched to Seagate 2tb SSD, which resolved everything. No more sounds - it's completely quite. The only think I hear from time-to-time, is the fan from the graphic card when it heats up. Also, the temp of the SSD is low and cool to the touch! And, the BI timeline is more responsive.

On my current build, I'm planning on getting a motherboard with Raid, so I can add a few more SSD's to make a 6tb drive and strip.
MattiasF
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:48 am

Re: Disk thrashing

Post by MattiasF » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:48 pm

Thanks for the advice guys.

I allocated 200GB on the OS SSD for New overflowing into the 14GB as Storage. No trashing anymore. Well, maybe the SSD is thrashing but it can hadnle it :)
kiyolaka
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:40 pm

Re: Disk thrashing

Post by kiyolaka » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:08 am

MikeBwca wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:02 pm The WD Purple, and Seagate Skyhawk, HDD's have the same number of heads, BUT, they have special caches & i/o to accommodate all those concurrent streams to the platters.

I had WD Purple, then switched to Seagate Skyhawk. Yes, these will sound like there going crazy, but there's designed that way.

I've since switched to Seagate 2tb SSD, which resolved everything. No more sounds - it's completely quite. The only think I hear from time-to-time, is the fan from the graphic card when it heats up. Also, the temp of the SSD is low and cool to the touch! And, the BI timeline is more responsive.

On my current build, I'm planning on getting a motherboard with Raid, so I can add a few more SSD's to make a 6tb drive and strip.
Are you recording directly to a SSD? I'd worry about trashing the ssd doing that.
MikeBwca
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:39 am

Re: Disk thrashing

Post by MikeBwca » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:34 am

I am recording directly to the SSD. Not to worried about trashing it. SSD's are made much better than in the 'old days. Time will tell.
blueeyecamz
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:29 pm

Re: Disk thrashing

Post by blueeyecamz » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:33 pm

Question...just got a 12TB external drive.....currently had the database, BI, OS and NEW on SSD, and STORED on an internal regular drive.....wondering best way to incorporate the new external....should I put NEW on the internal drive and STORED on the new external? or just shuck the external and make it the new internal?? thoughts?
User avatar
TimG
Posts: 1047
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:45 am
Location: Nottinghamshire, UK.

Re: Disk thrashing

Post by TimG » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:19 pm

I'm all for shucking the drive, as it prevents it going to sleep or being accidently unplugged, as well as getting it onto the main motherboard SATA data system which should reduce cpu usage (compared to the external drive). I would then move only the Stored folder to the new drive.

The last shucking video I watched on Youtube stated how much cheaper it was to buy these large drives in an external enclosure (Doesn't make much sense), but there was a caveat with one of them - the drive was locked into a reboot cycle when removed from the enclosure and used in a pc. The guy had to modify the power plug to prevent this happening.

If it does work, please post drive details, costs etc so we can have a think about doing the same thing :idea:
BI5 v54711 x64 | Win10 21H1 | Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-ZE, Foscam R2, Ertech 4MP, Neos2, 2 SD cams | BI5:1 i5-3330, 16GB Ram, Multiple SSD and HD, Homeseer 2 HSPhone, TVMosaic | BI5:2 Ryzen 1800X, 16GB Ram, Multiple SSD and HD, Homeseer 4, Emby, DVBViewer.
MikeBwca
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:39 am

Re: Disk thrashing

Post by MikeBwca » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:54 am

I've shucked a Seagate Backup Plus Hub 10TB External Hard Drive USB 3.0, to use as a backup drive. I had gotten 1 at around 139 new, and the other at around 220. Currently $230 on Amazon. The drive inside the enclosure is the exact drive Seagate Barracuda Pro Compute Sata 6, 7200 RPM, 256MB that was selling for around $350 at the time. Now Seagate skips the 10tb in their listings. I can't find new 10 or 12tb on amazon. The 14tb runs $540!

If your looking for a HDD drive for the BlueIris database, get a Seagate Skyhawk (Or WDD Purple). These are designed for surveillance systems.
If you can afford it, get 1 or more SSD's. I Use 1 2tb Seagate Barracuda Compute SSD. They run $220. Planning on adding a few more after I build my new desktop with raid.

Links to hardware below.


- I also use a StarTech Sata Hotswap bays on both my desktops. When a drive is inserted, it automatically powers up and mounts it to my Windows 10 system.

- When done, I use a utility 'HotSwap' to unmount - an amazing free utility. This uses Microsoft Sysinternals utilities, which you could also use to unmount any drive - but, this is easier.
From the Website, here are the features...
What it doesn't list is that it also flushes the cache.
  • Friendly user interface equivalent to the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the notification area.
  • Ensures all volumes on the drive are not in use before removing it.
  • Spin-down the drive to remove the drive in safe.
  • Also support a drive other than fixed disk drive.
  • Supports the command line mode to run without graphical user interface.
  • Multilingual user interface.
- Then, I remove it from the hotswap bay (de-shock first), put it back in the anti-static bad, and put it in a fireproof Sentry safe running around $58. But all you really need for a HDD and SSD's is a smaller safe.






Seagate 10tb Backup Plus 3.0 USB: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0798 ... X0DER&th=1
Seagate Skyhawk HDD: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H231394/re ... =UTF8&th=1
Seagate SSD: https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracud ... 192&sr=1-4
StarTech Hotswap Bay: https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-5-2 ... 286&sr=1-4
Hotswap utility: http://mt-naka.com/hotswap/index_enu.htm
Sentry Fireproof .65 cf Safe: https://www.amazon.com/SentrySafe-HD410 ... 199&sr=8-3
User avatar
TimG
Posts: 1047
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:45 am
Location: Nottinghamshire, UK.

Re: Disk thrashing

Post by TimG » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:27 am

Are you recording directly to a SSD? I'd worry about trashing the ssd doing that.
I used to think the same but spare parts box curiosity took over. To keep the 'New' folder and the BI db away from the Windows drive (and to put them on a 'fast' drive), I added a pre-used 120GB PNY SSD and moved them there, where they have been working well for over a year now.
BI5 v54711 x64 | Win10 21H1 | Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-ZE, Foscam R2, Ertech 4MP, Neos2, 2 SD cams | BI5:1 i5-3330, 16GB Ram, Multiple SSD and HD, Homeseer 2 HSPhone, TVMosaic | BI5:2 Ryzen 1800X, 16GB Ram, Multiple SSD and HD, Homeseer 4, Emby, DVBViewer.
Post Reply